Joining us now, Wired, senior writer and author of Wired's newsletter, Inner Loop, Jake Lut, senior reporter for The Bull Work and author of Trust the Plan: The Rise of Qanon and the Conspiracy that reshaped the world, Will Summer, and senior editor at The Atlantic and host of Radio Atlantic, Hana Rosen. Jake, they have all the evidence. They could just come out and say, "Yeah, yeah, Donald Trump's in it, but it's a nothing burger. He's in address books. he's mentioned um as somebody who lives in Palm Beach ...

Congressional Investigations & Legal Actions - The House Oversight Committee is issuing subpoenas to the DOJ for unredacted files related to Epstein and to Ghislaine Maxwell for a deposition [1][2] - The DOJ also wants to interview Maxwell [3] Political Landscape & Republican Party Dynamics - Part of the Republican party is determined to pursue the Epstein issue, defying party leadership [4] - Multiple committees are struggling to manage the issue, as any amendments from Democrats could lead to vote losses [5] - Republicans need to latch onto something to satisfy their base, who may not be satisfied until alleged Democratic involvement is proven [7][8] - Sending the House home early may not quell the issue, as voters will demand action [9] Impact on Elections & Trump's Influence - Conspiracy theories can undermine trust and potentially reduce voter turnout in midterms and beyond, potentially leading to Democratic wins [11][12] - The Republican party under Trump has embraced conspiracy theories, but they may be backfiring [13][14] - Republicans struggle in elections without Donald Trump on the ballot, as his coalition relies on low-propensity voters [14][17] - The Epstein issue could depress Republican voter turnout in midterm elections [19][20]

Political Landscape & Elections - Congressman Mike Lawler announced he will run for reelection in 2026, a key battleground for House control [1][2] - Lawler's decision potentially clears the way for Elise Stefanik to pursue a gubernatorial bid [2] - Lawler won his previous election by 6.5 points in a district carried by Vice President Harris [7] Policy & Legislation - Lawler highlights his role in lifting the cap on state and local tax (SALT), securing a $40,000 SALT cap [5] - Lawler chairs the Middle East and North Africa subcommittee, focusing on Iran, Israel, and Arab partners [6] Political Criticism & Reactions - Governor Kathy Hochul criticized Lawler's decision, implying he was following President Trump's orders [10][11] - Lawler responded by calling Hochul the "single worst governor in America," citing high taxes, a poor business climate, and crises in crime, migration, housing, and energy [11][12] Epstein Files Controversy - Lawler stated that anyone involved in criminal activity related to Jeffrey Epstein should be prosecuted [18] - Lawler expressed concern about releasing all Epstein files due to privacy concerns for victims [20][21] - Lawler questioned the timing of the release of information related to the Epstein case, noting the Biden DOJ had the information for four years [19][25]

Political Analysis - The speaker of the house, Mike Johnson, is in a difficult position regarding the release of Epstein files, caught between satisfying the base voters who are eager for the files to be released and avoiding conflict with Donald Trump [1][2] - Releasing the Epstein files is described as an issue that should be easy for Republicans, as their voters are very interested in it [1] - The base voters are described as "ravenous for the Epstein files" [1] - The speaker's priority is likely avoiding conflict with Donald Trump, given the history of Republican speakers who have faced consequences for disagreeing with him [1] - Conspiracy theories can take on a life of their own and be difficult to control, even for those who initially stoked them [11] Trump & Epstein Relationship - The report references a New York Times piece detailing the long friendship between Trump and Epstein, including an account of Trump hosting a party for young women where Epstein was the only other guest [6] - Allegations of sexual misconduct against Donald Trump are mentioned, including a lawsuit where Trump was accused of sexual misconduct at the party [7] - Donald Trump was found liable for sexual abuse and defamation in the E Jean Carroll case [8][9] Media & Public Opinion - Prominent podcasters are calling on Mike Johnson to bring the Epstein files issue to the floor [1][2] - The base's strong desire for the release of the Epstein files is driving the reemergence of stories about Trump's past [9] - The situation is compared to the Benghazi controversy, where right-wing media fueled conspiracy theories that ultimately led to the discovery of Hillary Clinton's email server [10][11]

Political Analysis - The report suggests that conspiracy theories are prevalent among a significant portion of Trump's base, with approximately 10% of the GOP base believing in QAnon conspiracies [9] - The Wall Street Journal's story about Trump and Epstein paradoxically validates the fears of Trump's base regarding the establishment, potentially strengthening Trump's support [3] - Trump's supporters view news organizations like Fox News and The Wall Street Journal with suspicion, believing they have been critical of Trump [5][6] Legal Implications - The release of grand jury transcripts related to the Epstein case is unlikely to reveal significant information due to strict rules protecting the privacy of uncharged individuals [12] - Legal principles in the US prevent the government from smearing individuals not indicted by a jury [12] Media and Public Perception - The media, particularly The Wall Street Journal, is perceived by some Trump supporters as being part of a larger conspiracy against him [4] - Trump has used the media as a target to rally his base, focusing their anger on outlets like The Wall Street Journal [10]

Political Analysis - The Epstein case is described as an unstable compound that could backfire on anyone trying to exploit it for political gain [7] - The situation is difficult to control, making promises related to it risky [7] - The Epstein story is overshadowing other issues important to the MAGA base, such as Iran, Ukraine, and Israel [8] - Some MAGA voters feel that Trump is not fulfilling his campaign promises [9] - Trump's association with Jeffrey Epstein poses a real problem for him, especially if evidence contradicting his denials emerges [14][15][16] Media and Public Perception - The Trump administration is trying to downplay the Epstein issue, but it is not going away [1][2] - Releasing more documents related to the case could backfire if redactions fuel conspiracy theories [12] - Trump is attempting to rally his supporters by portraying the media as attacking him with "fake news" [19] - The Epstein case is deeply connected to Trump's image as a champion against injustice, making it difficult for him to go on the offensive [21] - There is a disconnect between the Trump White House staff and the voters regarding the importance of issues like the Epstein case [23]

Public Opinion & Political Impact - Reuters polling indicates 62% of Republicans believe the Trump administration is concealing information about Epstein's clients, and this figure rises to 70% among all Americans [4] - The situation is perceived by some within the MAGA base as a betrayal, leading to distrust of Donald Trump [3][9] - Trump's unusual anger towards his base and the base's rare anger towards him raises concerns within his administration [6][10] - The controversy surrounding the Epstein files has the potential to damage Trump's relationship with his base [14][17] Trump's Involvement & Response - There are suspicions that Trump is concealing something related to the Epstein files, possibly due to their past close relationship [7] - Trump's attempts to dismiss the Epstein issue are being met with resistance from his supporters [2][13] - Trump's past association with Epstein, including the numerous phone numbers listed in Epstein's phone book, is being scrutinized [7][8] Media & Public Discourse - Right-wing radio is amplifying concerns about the Epstein files and potential cover-ups [2][3][12] - The Epstein story has inherent interest beyond Trump's base and may have lasting ramifications [16][17]

MAGA is eating itself alive over Jeffrey Epstein. So is Donald Trump himself for dessert. Joining us now, former Republican congressman and author of The Breach: The Untold Story of the Investigation into January 6, Denver Wgleman, managing editor of The Bull Work and MSNBC contributor Sam Stein and senior reporter for The Bull Work and author of Trust the Plan, the rise of QAnon, and the conspiracy that reshaped the world.Will summer. Well, this is um this fever swamp is the one that you dwell in most, so ...

Political Analysis - Trump's movement is built on the idea that elites are taking advantage of his followers [1] - Trump is seen as an embodiment of the elite, despite his anti-elite rhetoric [2][3] - Democrats are attempting to position themselves as the true anti-elite party [4] Policy & Economic Impact - Rising inflation is attributed in part to Trump's tariffs [5] - Promised trade deals have not materialized [5] - Healthcare policies are facing backlash, with attempts to roll back Medicaid cuts [6] - Immigration policies are losing support due to perceived cruelty [6] Trump's Challenges - Trump lacks transparency and faces scrutiny regarding his associations [3][4] - Trump's administration struggles to find positive issues to focus on [5] - Trump is losing support on key issues [6] - Trump faces a difficult situation with no clear solutions [7]

Public Opinion & Political Implications - The report suggests a significant portion of Trump supporters reacted negatively to the official memo regarding Jeffrey Epstein's death and the alleged non-existence of a client list [1] - The public expresses disbelief in the Justice Department's official narrative surrounding the Epstein case, perceiving it as an attempt to suppress further discussion [2] - There is a sentiment that the Trump administration, initially promising transparency, is now implicated in a cover-up, leading to disillusionment among supporters [3] - Trump's MAGA base is reportedly seeking someone to blame, resulting in internal conflicts within the Trump administration [4] Conspiracy & Mistrust - The report indicates a widespread belief in conspiracy theories related to the Epstein case, with accusations of cover-ups involving the intelligence community and the Trump administration [3] - The public feels insulted and believes their intelligence is being undermined by the perceived lack of transparency and the official explanations provided [2]