Joining us now, Jennifer Freeman, attorney for Maria Farmer, who you just saw in that clip, and Gretchen Carlson, journalist and co-founder of Lift Our Voices. Uh, Jennifer, I was on earlier today um on Morning Joe, and I listened in real time as the tape played back of the president um just refusing to say, "Oh, no. I would not uh pardon, grant clemency, do anything for Kain Maxwell." and understanding what she what she was convicted of, knowing what um so many um just valiant women have come out and said ...