Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Adjusted net income from continuing operations increased to $152.8 million or $0.81 per share, with an adjusted return on assets of 1.13% for the quarter [6][7] - Adjusted pretax pre-provision net revenue reached a record $224 million, up nearly 9% from the prior quarter [9] - Total adjusted revenue increased to $517 million, a rise of $41 million or 9% in the quarter [10] - Net interest revenue was up $46 million or 12%, driven by balance sheet growth and improved net interest margin [10][11] - Adjusted efficiency ratio improved to 56.5% [6] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Deposits increased by $3.4 billion, with core customer deposits up $3.1 billion due to the influx from the Industry acquisition [7] - Loans rose by $1.3 billion, with $1 billion attributed to the Industry acquisition and over $300 million in organic growth [7] - Adjusted non-interest revenue decreased by $4.7 million, primarily due to seasonal declines in mortgage banking revenue [12] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The net interest margin improved by six basis points to 3.46%, driven by improved securities yields and a decline in overall funding costs [11] - Loan yields were 6.37%, up three basis points due to added accretion, while securities yields improved by 32 basis points to 3.65% [11] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company completed the acquisition of Industry Bank shares and integrated operations, aiming for growth in Central Texas and Georgia markets [5] - The focus remains on organic growth and potential inorganic opportunities, with a strong emphasis on maintaining a good capital level for future investments [41][96] - The company is confident in its performance and outlook for the markets, projecting continued growth through the end of the year [15] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in the growth machine, noting that the shorter time frame for the year-end guidance reflects clarity in expectations [21] - The company anticipates continued modest improvement in net interest margin through the end of the next year [11] - Management highlighted strong market activity and a solid pipeline supporting growth expectations [99] Other Important Information - The company reported a decline in tangible book value per share by only $0.12 to $22.82, largely offset by strong operating earnings [6] - The acquisition of Industry Bank shares resulted in an additional $143 million in tangible common equity relative to initial estimates [14] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you talk about the drivers of the slightly lower revenue and loan growth guide? - Management indicated that the shorter time frame for the year-end guidance provides better clarity, and they expect good growth in the fourth quarter [21][23] Question: What sort of beta do you expect in the broker and time deposits as rates go down? - Management expects interest-bearing betas to reach about 50%, with total deposits between 30% and 40% [26][27] Question: Is there anything impacting DDA specifically as we go through the rest of the year? - Management noted that non-interest bearing deposits finished at 20.6%, consistent with their historical trends [32][33] Question: What should we think of as a good capital level or base capital level moving forward? - Management aims to be good stewards of capital, looking for opportunities for organic growth and potential acquisitions [41] Question: Any thoughts on loan pricing and competition in recent weeks? - Management acknowledged competitive pressures but noted that yields have been holding steady [107][108]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Wintrust reported a record net income of $216 million for Q3 2025, up from over $195 million in the previous quarter, representing an increase of almost 11% quarter over quarter [3] - Net interest income increased by $20 million from the second quarter to $567 million, driven by solid loan and overall balance sheet growth [4] - Total assets grew by $646 million to just under $70 billion [8] - Non-interest income totaled $130.8 million, up approximately $6.7 million compared to the prior quarter [10] - Non-interest expenses decreased slightly to $380 million from $381.5 million in the previous quarter, with improved efficiency ratios [10] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Total loans reached $52 billion at quarter end, up 11% year to date on an annualized basis, with loan growth of just over $1 billion [4][7] - Commercial real estate loans grew by $327 million, while the Wintrust Life Finance team added $252 million [13] - Non-performing loans decreased from $189 million to $163 million, reflecting strong credit quality [14] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Wintrust achieved deposit share gains in key markets, ranking third in deposit market share in Illinois, up one position [5] - Deposit growth was $895 million during the quarter, representing a 6% increase over the prior quarter on an annualized basis [7] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company remains focused on core deposit growth and maintaining a disciplined approach to underwriting, particularly in the Midwest markets [19] - Wintrust aims to continue generating loan and deposit growth in the mid to high single-digit range while maintaining a stable net interest margin [19] - The company is exploring both organic growth and potential acquisitions, with a preference for organic growth in familiar markets [97] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in maintaining a stable net interest margin despite potential rate cuts, citing effective balance sheet management [32][61] - The overall credit environment is stable, with proactive measures in place to address any emerging credit challenges [17] - Management noted a sense of measured optimism among customers as they approach year-end [17] Other Important Information - The company has consistently grown tangible book value per share since becoming public and is on track to do so again in 2025 [11] - A one-time impact from preferred stock redemption reduced fully diluted net income per common share by $0.28 in Q3 [12] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you talk about the loan growth drivers and any NDFI exposure? - Management highlighted unique market positioning in Chicago, gaining market share from larger banks, and noted that NDFI exposure totals just over $2 billion, primarily in mortgage warehouse lines [25][31] Question: How do you feel about holding the margin in the current range with potential Fed rate cuts? - Management expressed confidence in maintaining the margin around $350, citing a balanced approach to deposits and loans [32] Question: What is the outlook for commercial loan growth? - Management indicated that the decline in commercial loan growth was more about timing than market competition, with consistent opportunities in the pipeline [37] Question: Can you expand on the strategy to play offense in your markets? - Management emphasized the attractiveness of the Midwest markets and the focus on organic growth rather than expanding into faster-growing regions [38][39] Question: Are there any segments or industries where you are pulling back your appetite to lend? - Management stated they are not pulling back from any specific segments but are closely monitoring higher education and healthcare sectors [81] Question: What is the biggest risk to maintaining the NIM? - Management identified irrational competition as a potential risk but noted that the current environment remains rational [83]

Financial Highlights - Adjusted net income available to common shareholders reached $152.8 million[5], or $0.81 per diluted common share[6] - Adjusted pre-tax pre-provision net revenue (PPNR) was $224.1 million, an increase of 8.8% compared to the second quarter of 2025[5, 6] - Net interest margin improved to 3.46%, a linked quarter increase of 6 basis points[5, 6] - Total loans grew by $1.3 billion, including $1.0 billion through acquisition and $0.3 billion in net organic growth[6] - Total deposits grew by $3.4 billion, with core customer deposits up $3.1 billion[6] Acquisition and Expansion - Completed the acquisition of Industry Bancshares, Inc, adding approximately $4.1 billion in assets[6] - Converted First Chatham Bank and Industry Bancshares banks to Cadence systems and branding[6] Loan Portfolio - Total loans and leases increased $1.3 billion to $36.8 billion[10, 13] - Commercial and Industrial (C&I) loans represent 39.5% of total loans, totaling $14.5 billion[10, 14, 19] - Commercial Real Estate (CRE) loans represent 28% of total loans, totaling $10.4 billion[10, 20, 24] Credit Quality - Net charge-offs for 3Q25 were $23.6 million, or 0.26% of average net loans and leases on an annualized basis[27, 30] - Total nonperforming assets excluding government guaranteed assets were 0.41% of total assets[25, 30] Capital Strength - Total shareholders' equity was $6.1 billion[58, 60] - Common Equity Tier 1 capital was 11.5%[5, 58, 60] - Total Capital Ratio was 13.1%[5, 58, 60] Industry Bancshares Acquisition Update - Updated purchase accounting resulted in improved tangible common equity of $143 million and reduced goodwill of $133 million compared to initial estimates[64] - Recognized net deferred tax asset of $100 million, initially modeled at $20 million[61, 64]

Core Insights - AmeriServ Financial, Inc. reported a significant increase in net income for the third quarter of 2025, reaching $2,544,000, which is a 115.0% improvement compared to the same period in 2024 [1] - The company achieved a net income of $4,170,000 for the nine-month period ending September 30, 2025, reflecting a 56.3% increase in earnings per share from the previous year [1] Financial Performance - The net interest income for the third quarter of 2025 increased by $2.1 million, or 23.9%, compared to the third quarter of 2024, and for the first nine months of 2025, it increased by $4.8 million, or 18.2% [2] - The net interest margin improved to 3.27% for the third quarter of 2025, a 56-basis point increase, and 3.13% for the nine months, reflecting a 41-basis point increase [2] - Total average loans grew by $35.9 million, or 3.5%, in the first nine months of 2025, although there was a $12.7 million, or 1.2%, decrease in total loans since December 31, 2024 [3] Investment and Securities - Total investment securities averaged $242.9 million for the third quarter of 2025, a $4.4 million, or 1.8%, increase from the previous year [4] - The securities portfolio grew by $17.3 million, or 7.9%, since December 31, 2024, due to increased loan prepayment activity and improved security yields [5] Deposits and Borrowings - Total average deposits increased by $69.5 million, or 6.0%, in the first nine months of 2025, attributed to successful business development efforts [6] - Total interest expense decreased by $345,000, or 4.4%, for the third quarter of 2025, and by $1.1 million, or 4.7%, for the nine months compared to the previous year [7] Credit Losses and Non-Interest Income - The company recorded a provision for credit losses of $360,000 in the third quarter of 2025, a significant increase compared to a recovery in the same period of 2024 [8] - Total non-interest income increased by $198,000, or 4.7%, in the third quarter of 2025, but declined by $904,000, or 6.7%, for the first nine months compared to the previous year [8] Non-Interest Expense - Total non-interest expense increased by $243,000, or 2.1%, in the third quarter of 2025 but decreased by $1.4 million, or 3.9%, for the first nine months compared to 2024 [10] - Professional fees decreased significantly, contributing to the overall reduction in non-interest expenses for the nine-month period [10] Shareholder Information - The company declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.03 per share, representing a 4.0% annualized yield based on the closing stock price [12] - As of September 30, 2025, the company had total assets of $1.46 billion and shareholders' equity of $114.6 million, with a book value of $6.94 per common share [11]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The net interest margin expanded by 11 basis points to 3.28% [5][10] - Customer fees, excluding net credit valuation adjustment, grew by $10 million [5] - Adjusted expenses declined by $1 million, leading to an improved efficiency ratio of 59.6% [5] - Diluted earnings per share was $1.48, down from $1.63 in the prior period [7] - The provision for credit loss was recorded at $49 million, with net charge-offs of $56 million, or 37 basis points of loans on an annualized basis [6][17] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Net interest income increased by $52 million, or 8%, compared to the third quarter of 2024 [9] - Customer-related non-interest income was $163 million, slightly down from $164 million in the prior period [11] - Adjusted customer-related non-interest income, excluding net CVA, was $174 million, representing a 6% increase versus the second quarter [11] - Average loans increased by 2.1% annualized over the previous quarter [13] - Average deposit balances were relatively flat, with a notable 11.5% reduction in average brokered deposits [13][14] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Average non-interest-bearing deposits grew by approximately $192 million, or 0.8% compared to the prior quarter [14] - Total borrowings declined by $1.8 billion during the quarter [15] - Non-performing assets remained low at 0.54% of loans and other real estate owned [16] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company aims to continue producing positive operating leverage as revenue growth outpaces non-interest expense growth [19] - There is a focus on enhancing capital markets offerings, including real estate capital markets and investment banking advisory fees [11] - The company is open to M&A opportunities but prioritizes smaller deals that enhance market density [58] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence that the credit issues faced are isolated incidents and emphasized a strong credit history [24][96] - The outlook for net interest income is moderately increasing, supported by continued growth in loans and deposits [9][10] - Management expects to maintain a stable risk appetite despite recent credit challenges [96] Other Important Information - The common equity tier one ratio was reported at 11.3%, indicating a strong capital position [18] - The company has seen a 17% growth in tangible book value per share compared to the prior year [18] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you talk about the isolated incident related to the charge-offs? - Management confirmed that the incident is isolated and has conducted a thorough review of the portfolio, finding no similar issues [22][23] Question: What is the outlook for net interest income? - The guidance includes expectations for fixed-rate asset repricing and loan growth, with a potential yield pickup of 2-3 basis points [31][32] Question: How has loan demand changed recently? - Loan spreads have improved slightly, and while there was some runoff in CNI, production has been up in most months this year [78][81] Question: What is the company's approach to M&A? - The company is open to smaller deals that enhance market presence but is not under pressure to pursue acquisitions [58][59] Question: How does the company view the NDFI portfolio? - Management believes that concerns regarding the NDFI portfolio are somewhat overblown, highlighting the safety of certain categories like capital call lines [106]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The third quarter reflected continued momentum in core earnings with net interest margin expanding by 11 basis points to 3.28% [4] - Customer fees, excluding net credit valuation adjustment, grew by $10 million, while adjusted expenses declined by $1 million, leading to an improved efficiency ratio of 59.6% [4] - Average loans and customer deposits increased by annualized rates of 2.1% and 3.1% respectively compared to the prior quarter [4] - Diluted earnings per share was $1.48 compared to $1.63 in the prior period and $1.37 in the year-ago period [5][6] - Adjusted non-interest income was $174 million for the quarter, representing a 6% increase versus the second quarter and an 8% increase versus the year-ago quarter [10] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Net interest income increased by $52 million, or 8%, relative to the third quarter of 2024, benefiting from fixed asset repricing and favorable shifts in the composition of average interest-earning assets [7][8] - Customer-related non-interest income was $163 million for the quarter, slightly down from $164 million in the prior period but up from $158 million one year ago [10] - Capital market fees, excluding net CVA, increased by 25% compared to the prior year period, driven by higher loan syndications and customer swap fee revenue [10] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Average loans increased by 2.1% annualized over the previous quarter and 3.6% over the year-ago period [12] - Average non-interest-bearing deposits grew approximately $192 million, or 0.8% compared to the prior quarter [13] - Total borrowings declined by $1.8 billion during the quarter, with short-term FHLB advances decreasing by $2.3 billion [14] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company expects to continue producing positive operating leverage as revenue growth outpaces non-interest expense growth [19] - The outlook for customer-related fee income in the third quarter of 2026 is moderately increasing relative to the third quarter of 2025, driven by increased customer activity and new client acquisitions [11] - The company is focused on maintaining a strong capital position and is open to M&A opportunities, particularly smaller deals that enhance market density [50][51] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence that the recent credit issues are isolated incidents and emphasized the strength of their credit history [22][24] - The company anticipates continued loan growth driven by commercial loans, despite some recent paydowns and payoffs [56][59] - Management noted that the current regulatory environment is shifting towards a focus on solid regulation, which they view positively [72][74] Other Important Information - The company recorded a $49 million provision for credit loss, with net charge-offs in the quarter at $56 million, or 37 basis points of loans on an annualized basis [4][16] - The allowance for credit losses as a percentage of loans remains stable at 1.2% [17] - The common equity tier one ratio this quarter was 11.3%, indicating a strong capital position [18] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you talk about the isolated incident regarding the charge this quarter? - Management reviewed the portfolio and believes it is an isolated incident, with no similar loans found [22][23] Question: How much fixed-rate asset repricing is factored into the NII guide outlook? - The guidance includes expectations for fixed-rate loans and securities, with potential yield increases embedded [27][28] Question: What is the outlook for operating leverage? - Management expects positive operating leverage but did not provide a specific range at this time [34][35] Question: How has loan demand changed over the last 90 days? - Loan spreads have improved slightly, and production has been up in most months this year compared to 2024 [65][66] Question: What is the company's current risk appetite? - The company will continue its historical underwriting practices, and the recent credit issues will not impact loan growth [80][81]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported net income of $65.6 million and diluted earnings per share of $1.20, representing an 18% increase from the same quarter last year [9] - Pre-provision net revenue was $88.3 million, with a return on average assets of 1.47% and a return on common equity of 14.9% [9] - The book value grew by an annualized 14% from the previous quarter, ending at $32.37 per share [10] - Net interest income for the quarter was $133.4 million, with a normalized net interest margin of 3.19% [10][12] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Loan growth was below expectations, with loan paybacks increasing by $500 million over the prior two quarters [3] - The loan pipeline increased by over 10% in October compared to September and is 40% higher than a year ago [3][4] - Non-performing assets rose to $930 million, an increase of approximately $96 million during the quarter [7] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company experienced a reduction in high-cost municipal deposits, offset by large corporate deposit inflows [4] - All markets are now profitable, a first since the company's inception [5] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company aims to manage down total deposit costs as the Federal Reserve reduces the Fed Funds rate [4] - Focus on organic loan and deposit growth while maintaining competitive pricing [14] - The company is exploring opportunities in Texas, emphasizing the importance of local relationships [43] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management noted that lending activity softened in Q3 but has been robust moving into Q4 [6] - The company expects continued margin expansion due to anticipated Federal Reserve rate cuts [11][26] - Management expressed confidence in resolving non-performing loans and maintaining credit quality [8][18] Other Important Information - The company recognized a loss of $7.8 million on the sale of bonds and invested in a solar tax credit, benefiting from a reduced tax provision [9][15] - The company has a total NDFI exposure of $71 million, which is less than 1% of the loan portfolio, indicating a cautious approach to risk [16][17] Q&A Session Summary Question: What pushed the borrower to non-performing status? - Management indicated that substantial additional collateral was taken, and a large payment expected did not materialize, leading to the non-accrual status [21] Question: What is the loan-to-value on the loans? - The loan-to-value is believed to be below one-to-one, with adequate security to cover the loans [23] Question: What is the expected margin improvement with upcoming Federal Reserve cuts? - Management expects a 7 to 10 basis points improvement in margin each quarter, with current normalized rates at 3.28% [25][41] Question: Are there new markets of interest for the company? - The company is particularly interested in Texas, emphasizing the need for local relationships to succeed in that market [43] Question: What is the effective tax rate going forward? - The effective tax rate is expected to remain around 18.9% for the year, with efforts to keep it below 20% [39]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported a September net interest margin of 3.76% and expects it to be at or above 3.65% in the fourth quarter, indicating a positive outlook for net interest income growth [18][22][28] - Cumulative deposit beta was reported at 65% through the rate cycle, but is expected to moderate due to the reduction of brokered deposits [36][38] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company has focused on improving organic growth capabilities, including talent acquisition and operational excellence, to drive efficiency and growth [11][19] - The restructuring of the balance sheet has led to an increase in net interest margin, with core balance sheet NIM growing seven basis points [26][28] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The competitive environment remains intense, with the company maintaining discipline in pricing despite pressures from larger banks offering lower rates [62][63] - The company has seen growth in consumer accounts but faces challenges with average balances per account declining [39] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company aims to grow core deposits while reducing reliance on brokered deposits, with a long-term goal of eliminating brokered deposits entirely [58] - The focus is on generating consistent, strong, risk-adjusted returns without sacrificing soundness and profitability [13][19] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed optimism about future growth opportunities, citing strong pipeline activity and production volumes [15][63] - The company is proactive in managing credit quality and expects to resolve existing loan issues while maintaining a sound balance sheet [46][50] Other Important Information - The company has implemented a hedging program to manage interest rate risk effectively, aiming to maintain net interest margin within a range of 3.50% to 3.75% [28][72] - The CEO announced his retirement, marking a significant transition for the company [79] Q&A Session Summary Question: What are the key strategic initiatives moving forward? - Management highlighted a focus on addressing structural challenges and enhancing organic growth capabilities, including talent acquisition and operational excellence [10][11] Question: How is the company approaching loan growth in a competitive environment? - Management emphasized the importance of soundness and profitability in growth strategies, with expectations for low single-digit loan growth rates [14][15] Question: What is the outlook for net interest margin? - Management provided guidance for a net interest margin of 3.65% or higher for the fourth quarter, supported by loan repricing dynamics [22][25] Question: How have deposit betas trended with recent rate cuts? - The cumulative deposit beta was reported at 65%, but management expects it to moderate due to the reduction of brokered deposits [36][38] Question: What is the company's credit outlook? - Management reported a benign quarter for credit metrics and expressed confidence in maintaining strong reserve levels [46][50]

Financial Highlights - Reported pre-provision net revenue (PPNR) of $375.9 million[4] - Net income applicable to common was $254.1 million[4] - Diluted earnings per share (EPS) reached $1.54[4] - Efficiency ratio stood at 45.8%[4] - Return on average assets (ROAA) was 1.27%[4] - Return on average tangible common equity (ROATCE) was 17.64%[4] Balance Sheet & Key Ratios - Total loans amounted to $55.052 billion, a 2.6% increase compared to the previous quarter[4, 6] - Total deposits reached $68.176 billion, up 2.8% quarter-over-quarter[4, 6] - Common Equity Tier 1 (CET1) ratio was 11.40%[4] - Tangible common equity (TCE) ratio was 7.50%[4] - Tangible book value per common share grew 3.7% to $36.42[4] Income Statement - Net interest income totaled $631.7 million, an increase of $10.5 million or 1.7% from the prior quarter[21, 27] - Non-interest income increased by $6.2 million quarter-over-quarter[21, 36] - Non-interest expense increased by $11.0 million compared to the previous quarter[21, 40] Loan & Deposit Portfolio - Total loan portfolio grew by $1.4 billion or 2.6% quarter-over-quarter[12, 14] - Total deposit portfolio increased by $1.9 billion or 2.8% quarter-over-quarter[18, 20]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported net income of $17.8 million for Q3 2025, up from $16.5 million in Q3 2024, translating to $1.56 per diluted common share compared to $1.41 a year ago [3][8] - Net interest income increased to $50.8 million, a rise of $2.8 million or 5.8% from $48 million in the same period last year [4][9] - The annualized net interest margin improved to 3.72% from 3.42% a year ago, reflecting stable loan yields and effective funding cost control [4][10] - Non-interest expense rose to $36.1 million from $33.7 million in the prior year, primarily due to higher legal and professional fees and technology upgrades [6][12] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Gross loans totaled $4.54 billion, a decline of $223 million or 4.7% from December 31, 2023, mainly due to elevated commercial real estate and multifamily loan payoffs [4][15] - Construction lending showed solid momentum with total unfunded construction commitments steady at approximately $600 million [5][16] - Non-interest income totaled $7.1 million, slightly up from $7.0 million in Q3 2024, driven by improvements in commissions on annuity sales and fees on loans [11][12] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Total deposits decreased by $77.5 million or 1.7% compared to December 31, 2024, primarily due to a decrease in brokered deposits [16][17] - As of September 30, 2025, uninsured deposits totaled approximately $742 million, representing roughly 16% of total deposits [17] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company emphasized disciplined cost control and operational efficiency while strategically investing in areas that enhance capabilities for sustained growth [15][19] - The Board of Directors approved a new stock repurchase authorization for up to 1 million additional shares, reflecting a commitment to returning value to shareholders [19][20] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management noted that credit quality remains strong, with no significant signs of weakness across the portfolio, despite some idiosyncratic issues in specific projects [24][25] - The company is well-positioned to handle potential future rate cuts, with expectations that moderate cuts will not significantly impact margins [27][28] Other Important Information - The efficiency ratio was reported at 62.45%, up from 61.34% in the prior year, indicating a slight increase in operational costs relative to income [14] - The allowance for credit losses as a percentage of total loans stood at 1.43%, reflecting a slight increase from the previous quarter [18] Q&A Session Summary Question: Loan growth outlook and regional opportunities - Management highlighted opportunities across various regions, including Texas and Atlanta, while noting elevated payoffs [22][23] Question: Signs of weakness in the portfolio - Management stated that there are no broad signs of weakness, with any issues being specific to individual projects [24] Question: Outlook on operating expenses - Management indicated that some operating expenses are expected to stabilize, with potential decreases in legal and professional fees [35][36] Question: Commission income sustainability - Management acknowledged that commission income is at a higher level than historically but could fluctuate based on customer interest [37][38]