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Atlas Energy Solutions (AESI) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-06 15:02
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - For Q1 2025, the company reported revenues of $297.6 million and adjusted EBITDA of $74.3 million, representing a margin of 25% [6][19] - EBITDA fell slightly below guidance due to elevated costs from commissioning the Dune Express and third-party trucking bonuses, reducing Q1 EBITDA by approximately $4 million [19][22] - Net income was $1.2 million, and earnings per share were $0.01 [22] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Proppant sales totaled $139.7 million, logistics operations contributed $150.6 million, and power rentals added $7.3 million [20] - Proppant volumes reached 5.7 million tons, up sequentially despite weather-related disruptions, while Encore volumes were 1.7 million tons, slightly down from Q4 [20] - Average revenue per ton was $24.71, boosted by shortfall revenue from unmet customer pickups [20] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company entered 2025 with a strong allocation base of approximately 22 million tons, with 3 million tons of potential upside pending [23][86] - The WTI forward strip has declined approximately 20% since early April, influencing customer spending behavior and deferring some near-term activity [7] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company completed the acquisition of Moser Energy Systems and launched commercial operations for the Dune Express, positioning itself for long-term growth [6][12] - The Dune Express is expected to enhance logistics margins and provide a long-term infrastructure advantage [11][12] - The company is focused on operational excellence, emphasizing people, processes, and technology to drive performance [15][16] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in navigating the current uncertainty in the oilfield sector, emphasizing a position of strength rather than weakness [8][12] - The company anticipates that while short-term uncertainty remains, its long-term outlook is grounded in strategic clarity and operational discipline [12][26] - Management noted that economic and commodity price uncertainty is prompting caution among customers, with several Q2 development plans deferred to the second half of 2025 [22][86] Other Important Information - The company expects Q2 service margins to surpass 20% as the benefits of the Dune Express begin to materialize [19] - Total incurred CapEx was $38.9 million, including $23.4 million in growth CapEx, with a budget of $115 million for 2025 [22][24] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you provide additional color on your guidance of flat to up sequentially? - Management indicated that there is currently no near-term upside in the market, with operators adopting a wait-and-see attitude [30][31] Question: What is the confidence level around the 22 million tons committed this year? - Management remains confident in the demand for the 22 million tons allocated, supported by strong fundamentals and commitments from large-cap operators [34][35] Question: Can you discuss the ramp-up of the Dune Express and its near-term earnings power? - Management noted that the Dune Express is in the commissioning phase, and while Q1 contributions were modest, they expect margins to expand as operations normalize [42][48] Question: How are deferred volumes impacting your outlook? - Deferred volumes are primarily driven by macro uncertainty, with operators hesitant to commit to new projects until they have more clarity [71][82] Question: What is the outlook for free cash flow moving forward? - Management expects improved working capital efficiency and cash flow generation as the year progresses, with Q1 being the largest spending quarter [52][54]
Atlas Energy Solutions (AESI) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-06 14:00
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - For Q1 2025, Atlas reported revenues of $297.6 million and adjusted EBITDA of $74.3 million, representing a margin of 25% [5][18] - EBITDA fell slightly below guidance due to elevated costs from commissioning the Dune Express and third-party trucking bonuses, reducing Q1 EBITDA by approximately $4 million [18] - Net income was $1.2 million, and earnings per share were $0.01 [21] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Proppant sales totaled $139.7 million, logistics operations contributed $150.6 million, and power rentals added $7.3 million [19] - Proppant volumes reached 5.7 million tons, up sequentially despite weather-related disruptions, while Encore volumes were 1.7 million tons, slightly down from Q4 [19] - Average revenue per ton was $24.71, boosted by shortfall revenue from unmet customer pickups, with an average price of $22.51 per ton excluding this [19] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - WTI's forward strip has declined approximately 20% since early April, influencing customer spending behavior and deferring some near-term activity [6] - Atlas entered 2025 with a strong allocation base of approximately 22 million tons and continues to bid on meaningful new tenders [10] Company Strategy and Development Direction - Atlas aims to navigate the current oilfield sector uncertainty by controlling costs, prioritizing capital discipline, and innovating with purpose [7] - The Dune Express is expected to provide long-term infrastructure advantages and is entering a critical phase with stabilizing volumes [11] - The integration of Mosier Energy Systems is progressing well, with positive customer feedback and new business models being explored [12] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in Atlas's ability to perform through cycles, emphasizing structural advantages that enable healthy free cash flow even in weak markets [10] - Short-term uncertainty remains, but the long-term outlook is grounded in strategic clarity and operational discipline [12] - Management noted that while some customers are pausing growth plans, they expect activity to resume as visibility improves [10] Other Important Information - Total incurred CapEx was $38.9 million, including $23.4 million in growth CapEx and $15.5 million in maintenance CapEx [21] - The company expects a sequential decline in CapEx in Q2, budgeting $115 million in total CapEx for 2025 with flexibility to adjust based on market conditions [21] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you provide additional color on your guidance of flat to up sequentially? - Management indicated that they do not see near-term upside in the market, with a wait-and-see attitude prevailing among operators [28] Question: What is the confidence level around the 22 million tons committed this year? - Management remains confident in the demand for the 22 million tons allocated, supported by strong fundamentals and commitments from large-cap operators [34] Question: Can you elaborate on the ramp-up of the Dune Express? - The Dune Express is progressing well, with stable operations and consistent throughput expected to lead to margin expansion as operations normalize [44] Question: How should we think about the free cash flow profile moving forward? - Management noted that Q1 was the largest spending quarter for CapEx, with expectations for improved working capital efficiency and cash flow generation as the year progresses [50] Question: What is the outlook for sand pricing and supply impacts? - Management observed that supply capacity additions have peaked, with some competitors reducing production, which is seen as constructive for the industry [62]
Patterson-UTI (PTEN) Reports Q1 Earnings: What Key Metrics Have to Say
ZACKS· 2025-05-05 14:35
Core Viewpoint - Patterson-UTI reported a decline in revenue and earnings for the quarter ended March 2025, with a revenue of $1.28 billion, down 15.2% year-over-year, and an EPS of $0.00 compared to $0.15 in the previous year, although it exceeded Wall Street expectations for revenue and EPS [1]. Financial Performance - Revenue of $1.28 billion represents a surprise of +7.67% over the Zacks Consensus Estimate of $1.19 billion [1]. - EPS surprise was +100.00%, with the consensus EPS estimate being -$0.04 [1]. - Shares of Patterson-UTI returned +6.5% over the past month, outperforming the Zacks S&P 500 composite's +0.4% change [3]. Key Metrics - Average direct operating costs per operating day were $19.55, slightly above the estimated $19.47 [4]. - Average adjusted gross profit per operating day was $16.17, exceeding the estimate of $15.25 [4]. - Operating revenue from Other Operations was $15.93 million, below the average estimate of $28.05 million [4]. - Operating revenue from Drilling Services was $412.86 million, slightly above the estimate of $402.03 million [4]. - Revenues from Completion Services were $766.08 million, significantly above the average estimate of $686.10 million, but represented a year-over-year decline of -18.9% [4]. - Revenues from Drilling Products were $85.66 million, slightly below the estimate of $87.29 million, reflecting a -4.8% year-over-year change [4]. - Operating income from Other was $0.23 million, below the estimate of $2 million [4]. - Operating income from Corporate was -$47.49 million, slightly better than the estimate of -$48.99 million [4]. - Operating income from Drilling Products was $6.73 million, exceeding the estimate of $5.69 million [4]. - Operating income from Completion Services was -$18.84 million, better than the estimate of -$34.08 million [4]. - Operating income from Drilling Services was $76.31 million, above the estimate of $70.39 million [4].
Forum Energy Technologies(FET) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-02 16:02
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported revenue of $193 million and EBITDA of $20 million for the first quarter, meeting expectations [16] - Orders increased by 6% to $201 million, resulting in a book-to-bill ratio of 104% [16] - Free cash flow generated in the first quarter was $7 million, three times higher than the same period last year, marking the seventh consecutive quarter of positive free cash flow generation [22] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - The Drilling and Completion segment saw a revenue increase of $5 million, driven by a rebound in sales of consumables and capital equipment [17] - The artificial lift and downhole segment experienced a decline in revenues due to unfavorable product mix and timing of shipments [18] - The Valve Solutions product line faced negative headwinds due to tariffs impacting demand, leading to a buyer strike [20] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Oil prices have declined significantly, hovering near four-year lows, which may lead to a reduction in rig counts and revenue starting in the third quarter if prices do not rebound [8] - The company anticipates a modest 2% to 5% decline in global drilling and completions activity for the year, with North America rig count expected to soften [13] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focusing on mitigating tariff impacts, optimizing the supply chain, and reducing costs and inventory [9] - Plans include increasing assembly activities in Saudi Arabia and Canada to serve global markets more efficiently [11] - The company aims to utilize 50% of free cash flow for debt reduction and the remaining for strategic investments, including share repurchases [24] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed concerns about economic uncertainty due to trade policies and commodity price pressures, indicating a potential decline in revenue if oil prices do not recover [7][8] - The company remains confident in its ability to generate free cash flow and maintain a strong balance sheet, with no debt maturities until 2028 [23] - Long-term growth is expected to be driven by increasing energy demand due to population growth and economic expansion [29] Other Important Information - The company has strategically de-risked its supply chain to minimize dependence on specific countries and provide sourcing flexibility [11] - The balance sheet has improved significantly, with a net debt of $146 million and a net leverage ratio of 1.56 times [23] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you elaborate on the strength in the Subsea side despite a slowdown in rig counts? - Management highlighted strong bookings in Subsea due to customer adoption of new products and a significant market share in remote-operated vehicles [35][36] Question: What products saw strength in the drilling completion segment? - Management noted a rebound in sales of frac pump power ends and wireline products, indicating increased activity despite fewer crews [38][40] Question: How are share repurchases managed in relation to leverage ratios? - Management explained that share repurchases are timed based on net debt measurements within 30 days of buying back shares, allowing flexibility in execution [46][47] Question: What is the impact of tariffs on pricing and demand? - Management acknowledged that tariffs have led to a buyer strike in the valve product line, affecting demand and pricing strategies [54][82] Question: How does the company plan to manage cash and debt reduction? - The company plans to use half of its free cash flow for net debt reduction and will continue to monitor market conditions for share repurchases [84][85] Question: What is the outlook for the Veraperm product line in Canada? - Management indicated that the recent performance was temporary and attributed to customer and product mix, with expectations for improvement in the second half of the year [63][65]
Forum Energy Technologies(FET) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-02 15:00
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Revenue for Q1 2025 was $193 million, with EBITDA of $20 million, meeting expectations [16] - Orders increased by 6% to $201 million, resulting in a book-to-bill ratio of 104% [16] - Free cash flow generated in Q1 was $7 million, three times higher than the same quarter last year, marking the seventh consecutive quarter of positive free cash flow [21][22] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - The Drilling and Completion segment saw a revenue increase of $5 million, driven by a rebound in sales of completions-related consumables and capital equipment [17] - The artificial lift and downhole segment experienced a revenue decline due to unfavorable product mix and softer demand for Veraperm products [18] - The Valve Solutions product line faced negative headwinds due to tariffs impacting demand, leading to a buyer strike and reduced orders [19] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Oil prices have declined significantly, hovering near four-year lows, which may lead to a reduction in global rig count in the second half of the year [8] - The company anticipates a modest 2% to 5% decline in global drilling and completions activity for the full year [13] - Despite market uncertainty, operators have not materially deviated from their plans, with expectations for flat quarter-over-quarter results in Q2 [20] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focusing on mitigating tariff impacts, optimizing the supply chain, and reducing costs and inventory [9] - Plans include increasing assembly activities in Saudi Arabia and Canada to efficiently serve global markets [10] - The company aims to utilize 50% of free cash flow for debt reduction and the remaining for strategic investments, including share repurchases [24] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed concerns about the economic uncertainty due to U.S. trade policies and OPEC's supply growth, which could pressure commodity prices [7] - The company remains confident in its ability to generate free cash flow and maintain a strong balance sheet, with no debt maturities until 2028 [23] - Long-term growth potential is viewed positively, driven by increasing energy demand due to population growth and economic expansion [28] Other Important Information - The company has strategically de-risked its supply chain to minimize dependence on specific countries [11] - A focus on expense and inventory management has led to the highest level of free cash flow in nearly a decade in 2024 [12] Q&A Session Summary Question: Subsea bookings and product adoption - Management highlighted a 60% quarter-over-quarter increase in subsea bookings due to customer adoption of new products, with strong demand for remote-operated vehicles [34][35] Question: Strength in drilling completion orders - The increase in orders for stimulation-related equipment was attributed to a rebound from low purchase levels at the end of the previous year, with crews working more efficiently [36][38] Question: Share repurchases and leverage ratio - Management clarified that share repurchases were executed despite ending the quarter slightly above the 1.5 leverage ratio, with plans to continue as cash flows allow [44][45] Question: Cost reduction efforts - The company is targeting $10 million in annualized cost reductions, with some benefits expected in Q2 and more in Q3 [46][47] Question: Customer behavior regarding pricing and tariffs - Management noted that customers are currently hesitant to purchase due to high prices and tariff uncertainty, leading to a buyer strike [51][52] Question: Seasonal impacts in Canada for Veraperm - Management indicated that the challenges faced by Veraperm in Canada are temporary and linked to customer and product mix, with expectations for improvement in the second half of the year [60][61] Question: Geographical diversification benefits - The company is leveraging its geographical diversification to mitigate tariff impacts and optimize manufacturing processes [74][75]
Stonegate Updates Coverage on NCS Multistage Holdings, Inc. (NCSM) 2025 Q1
Newsfile· 2025-05-02 13:31
Core Insights - NCS Multistage Holdings, Inc. (NCSM) reported total revenues of $50.0 million in Q1 2025, marking a 14% year-over-year increase and the highest quarterly revenue since Q1 2020 [1][5] - The growth was primarily driven by increased product sales in Canada and services revenue across all geographies, despite a decline in U.S. product sales due to project delays [1] - The company expects modest revenue growth through FY25, despite potential threats from increasing tariffs [1] Revenue Breakdown - Canadian sales saw a 26% sequential increase, while international revenue experienced a 34% decline due to timing of tracer work and a 13% drop in U.S. revenue compared to Q4 2024 [1] - International revenue was supported by tracer diagnostics work in the Middle East and product and service sales in the North Sea [1] Financial Metrics - Consolidated gross margins improved from 40.1% in Q1 2024 to 43.7% in Q1 2025 [1] - NCSM reported a liquidity position of $49.8 million, up from $34.4 million in Q1 2024 [5] - Adjusted EBITDA reached $8.2 million, reflecting a $2.1 million year-over-year improvement [5]
Cactus(WHD) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-01 15:02
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Total Q1 revenue was $280 million, up 3% sequentially, with adjusted EBITDA of $94 million, an increase of 1.2% sequentially [9][11] - GAAP net income for Q1 was $54 million, down from $57 million in the previous quarter, primarily due to professional fees incurred at corporate [12] - Adjusted net income and earnings per share were $59 million and $0.73 per share, respectively, compared to $57 million and $0.71 per share in the fourth quarter [12] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Pressure Control segment revenues were $190 million, up 7.7% sequentially, driven by customer drilling efficiencies [9][10] - Spoolable Technologies segment revenues were $93 million, down 3.6% sequentially due to lower domestic customer activity, partially offset by increased international shipments [10][11] - Operating income for Pressure Control increased by $3.5 million or 6.9% sequentially, while Spoolable Technologies saw a decrease of $1.6 million or 6.5% sequentially [10] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - International sales in the Spoolable Technologies segment increased by 30% quarter over quarter, driven by robust demand in Canada [22] - The company expects U.S. land drilling activity to decline slightly in the second quarter, with approximately 30 fewer land rigs operating than at the end of Q1 [20] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on mitigating tariff impacts by increasing alternative sourcing and ramping up production from its Vietnam facility [16][17] - There is a commitment to international expansion, although no specific updates were provided during the call [26] - The company plans to reduce full-year 2025 net CapEx outlook to a range of $40 million to $50 million while maintaining critical investments [14] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in maintaining profitability despite macroeconomic uncertainties and tariff impacts [27] - The company anticipates a decline in pressure control revenue in Q2 but expects spoolable technologies revenue to increase due to seasonal expansion [20][21] - Management noted that downturns historically create opportunities for new customer acquisition and that they are already seeing such opportunities [90] Other Important Information - The company paid a quarterly dividend of $0.13 per share, resulting in a cash outflow of approximately $11 million [13] - The cash balance at the end of the quarter was $348 million, reflecting a sequential increase of approximately $5 million [13] Q&A Session Summary Question: Transition to Vietnam and cost advantages - Management clarified that Bossier City is not a low-cost operation but offers fast turnaround and robust manufacturing, protecting market share [30] Question: Customer behavior regarding tariffs - Management confirmed that customers have requested to pull forward purchases, but these requests have been denied to maintain fairness among all customers [39] Question: Customer loyalty during downturns - Management indicated that major customers are sticking with the company, emphasizing the importance of supply chain sustainability [42] Question: M&A opportunities in the current environment - Management noted that private equity firms are willing to sell oil field service investments at attractive prices, but the focus remains on the current industry [46] Question: Impact of tariffs on margins - Management acknowledged that there will be some margin compression in the second half of the year due to tariffs, but diversification efforts will help mitigate impacts [68] Question: Ongoing Section 232 investigation - Management expressed that the U.S. lacks adequate steelmaking capacity, which could lead to inflationary pressures [81]
NCS Multistage(NCSM) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-01 13:32
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The first quarter revenue was $50 million, exceeding the high end of the guided range by $4 million, marking the highest quarterly revenue since Q1 2020 [4][12] - Adjusted gross margin was 44%, up from 40% year-over-year, reflecting strong operating leverage [5][12] - Adjusted EBITDA was $8.2 million, an increase from $6.1 million in Q1 2024 [12] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Canadian revenue reached $38 million, a 19% increase compared to Q1 2024, driven by the fracturing systems product line [6][12] - International revenue increased by 34%, primarily from activities in the Middle East and North Sea [12] - U.S. revenue declined by 6%, indicating challenges in that market [12] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The average rig count in Canada increased by 3%, but NCS's revenue growth outpaced this, indicating strong market performance [6] - International revenue accounted for 10% of total revenue in 2024, with expectations for continued growth in the North Sea and Middle East [7][8] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company aims to build on its leading market positions, capitalize on international opportunities, and commercialize innovative solutions [6][9] - NCS is focusing on technology development and expanding its addressable market through new product introductions [10][21] - The company is evaluating M&A opportunities while maintaining a strong balance sheet for strategic investments [40][41] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed caution regarding the second half of 2025 due to geopolitical uncertainties and potential impacts from tariffs [17][19] - The company maintains a revenue guidance of $165 million to $175 million for 2025, reflecting a 5% year-over-year growth at the midpoint [18] - There is an expectation for free cash flow of $7 million to $11 million, which will strengthen the balance sheet [18][21] Other Important Information - Selling, general, and administrative costs increased by $2.4 million due to higher incentive bonuses and stock-based compensation [13] - The company had a cash balance of $23 million and total liquidity of approximately $50 million at the end of Q1 [14][21] Q&A Session Summary Question: Are there any capacity constraints on the horizon? - Management indicated no significant breakpoints in capacity, with sufficient supply chain capacity to support growth [26][28] Question: What is the current sales pipeline like? - The company noted ongoing scenario planning among customers, with expectations for decisions impacting market activity in the near term [30][32] Question: How do you see product sales in the U.S. playing out for the remainder of 2025? - Management highlighted deferred opportunities in frac systems and successful customer trials converting into regular activity [34][35] Question: Will the company pursue M&A opportunities given the strong balance sheet? - Management confirmed active evaluation of M&A opportunities while also considering internal investment options [40][41] Question: How is the pricing environment affected by tariffs and commodity prices? - Management acknowledged challenges in passing through costs due to low commodity prices but emphasized the differentiation of their products [54][58]
NCS Multistage(NCSM) - 2025 Q1 - Earnings Call Transcript
2025-05-01 12:30
Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company's Q1 2025 revenue was $50 million, exceeding the high end of the guided range by $4 million, marking the highest quarterly revenue since Q1 2020 [4][12] - Adjusted gross margin improved to 44%, up from 40% year-over-year, benefiting from operating leverage and higher margin international activity [5][12] - Adjusted EBITDA for Q1 2025 was $8.2 million, surpassing the estimated range of $4.5 million to $6.5 million, and representing a year-over-year increase of $2.1 million [5][12] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Revenue in Canada for Q1 2025 was $38 million, a 19% increase compared to Q1 2024, driven by the adoption of fracturing systems [6][12] - International revenue increased by 34%, primarily due to activity in the Middle East and North Sea, while U.S. revenue declined by 6% [12] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The average rig count in Canada increased by 3%, but the company's revenue growth outpaced this, indicating strong market performance [6] - The company anticipates a seasonal decline in Canadian revenue for Q2 2025 due to spring breakup, projecting total revenue in the range of $26 million to $29 million [15] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company aims to build on its leading market positions, capitalize on international opportunities, and commercialize innovative solutions to customer challenges [6][8] - The company is focusing on expanding its presence in international markets, particularly in the North Sea and the Middle East, and plans to establish a local entity in the UK [6][29] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed caution regarding the second half of 2025 due to geopolitical uncertainties and potential impacts from tariffs, while maintaining a revenue guidance of $165 million to $175 million for the year [17][19] - The company expects to generate positive free cash flow in 2025, strengthening its balance sheet and providing opportunities for strategic investments [19][22] Other Important Information - The company reported a net income of $4.1 million for Q1 2025, with diluted earnings per share of $1.51, an improvement from $2.1 million and $0.82 per share in Q1 2024 [12] - The company maintains a strong liquidity position with $23 million in cash and total liquidity of approximately $50 million [22] Q&A Session Summary Question: Are there any capacity constraints to be aware of? - Management indicated no significant breakpoints in capacity, citing a robust supply chain and infrastructure to support growth [27][29] Question: What is the current sales pipeline like? - Management noted ongoing scenario planning among customers and anticipated decisions that could affect market activity, particularly in North America [30][32] Question: How does the company view M&A opportunities? - Management is open to evaluating M&A opportunities but also sees strong internal investment potential if suitable external opportunities do not arise [39][40] Question: How is the pricing environment affected by tariffs and commodity prices? - Management acknowledged challenges in passing through increased costs due to low commodity prices but emphasized the differentiation of their products [54][56]
NCS Multistage Holdings, Inc. Announces First Quarter 2025 Results
Globenewswire· 2025-04-30 20:15
First Quarter Results Total revenues of $50.0 million, a 14% year-over-year improvementGross margin improved to 42% from 39%; adjusted gross margin improved to 44% from 40% in the first quarter of 2024Net income of $4.1 million and diluted earnings per share of $1.51, an improvement compared to $2.1 million and diluted earnings per share of $0.82 one year agoAdjusted EBITDA of $8.2 million, a $2.1 million year-over-year improvement$23.0 million in cash and $7.6 million of total debt as of March 31, 2025 HOU ...