Dave (DAVE) Q2 2025 Earnings Call August 06, 2025 08:30 AM ET Speaker0Good morning, everyone, and thank you for participating in today's conference call to discuss financial results for the second quarter ended 06/30/2025. Joining us today are DAVE's CEO, Mr. Jason Wilk and the company's CFO and COO, Mr. Kyle Beelman. By now, everyone should have access to the second quarter twenty twenty five earnings press release, which was issued this morning.The release is available in the Investor Relations section of ...

OPENLANE (KAR) Q2 2025 Earnings Call August 06, 2025 08:30 AM ET Speaker0Good day, and welcome to OpenLane's Second Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Itunu Orillaru. Please go ahead.Speaker1Good morning, everyone. Welcome to OpenLane's second quarter twenty twenty five earnings call. With me today are Peter Kelly, CEO of OpenLane and Brad Aaron, EVP and CFO of OpenL ...

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported a net loss from continuing operations of $19.9 million in Q2 2025, compared to a net loss of $26.2 million in Q2 2024, indicating an improvement in financial performance [17] - Research and development expenses decreased to $12.9 million from $15.8 million in the previous year, reflecting lower costs associated with the SER-155 Phase Ib study and reduced personnel expenses [17] - General and administrative expenses were $10.3 million in Q2 2025, down from $13.1 million in Q2 2024, primarily due to lower personnel and IT-related expenses [18] - As of June 30, 2025, the company had cash and cash equivalents of $45.4 million, and with the recent $25 million payment received, it expects to fund operations into 2026 [18] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - The SER-155 Phase Ib study demonstrated a 77% relative risk reduction in bloodstream infections compared to placebo in patients undergoing allogeneic hematopoietic stem cell transplant, with a number needed to treat of three [6][9] - The company is preparing for a Phase II study with an enrollment goal of approximately 248 participants, focusing on the prevention of bloodstream infections [8] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company has received positive feedback from European physicians regarding SER-155, indicating plans to include the EU in the Phase II study [22][29] - Engagement with EU key opinion leaders (KOLs) confirmed that bloodstream infections in the alloHSCT population remain a significant unmet need [30] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The immediate corporate priority is to secure capital to advance SER-155 and other promising development candidates, exploring various transaction structures including partnerships and mergers [10][11] - The company is actively discussing potential deals with multiple parties to secure necessary resources for clinical milestones [11][28] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed optimism about the potential of SER-155 to provide transformative clinical benefits for patients with serious infections and inflammatory diseases [5] - The company is mindful of the challenging biotech environment but remains focused on advancing its development programs and securing capital [10] Other Important Information - The company acknowledged the contributions of Eric Schaff, who played a significant role in the maturation of the biotherapeutic field, and welcomed Rob Rossello to the Board [19] Q&A Session Summary Question: How will the company decide the best structure for potential deals? - The company is exploring various deal structures that provide capital to advance SER-155 and leverage expertise in conducting global studies [24][28] Question: Are there plans to include the EU in the Phase II study? - Yes, the Phase II study will be a global study including European countries, and the design is robust and well-powered [29]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Total revenues for Q2 were $364 million, up 10% year over year on a reported basis and 9% on a constant currency basis [27] - Subscription revenues now represent 92% of total revenues, up two percentage points from the same period last year, with subscription revenues growing 12% year over year [28] - Free cash flow was $57 million for the quarter and $273 million year to date, with an increased full-year free cash flow outlook raised to a range of $430 to $470 million [34][36] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - ARR grew 11.5% year over year, with a net revenue retention rate of 109% [18][31] - The fastest-growing sector was Resources, particularly driven by mining, which outpaced civil for the first time in six quarters [19] - Perpetual license revenues for the quarter were $10 million, down $1 million year over year, making up only 3% of total revenues [28] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Growth in the Americas was solid, with Latin America standing out, while the US accounts remained confident despite uncertainties [21] - EMEA delivered solid growth, with the Middle East leading, and investment remains strong across various infrastructure sectors [22] - In Asia Pacific, India showed positive sentiment, while Australia experienced a slowdown in transportation spending [24] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on going digital as a long-term growth driver, emphasizing the need for enhanced software utilization and AI [5] - The acquisition strategy is now focused on asset analytics opportunities rather than broad programmatic acquisitions [69] - The integration of Cesium and AI capabilities is a priority, with ongoing developments expected to enhance product offerings [66][90] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in meeting full-year outlook based on low double-digit ARR growth and continued margin expansion [17] - The demand for better infrastructure continues to outpace available engineering resources, positioning the company favorably [17][41] - The company anticipates a favorable impact from recent legislative changes regarding infrastructure investment [21][23] Other Important Information - The company highlighted the success of its first Cesium Data conference, showcasing its 3D geospatial platform and integration with existing products [25] - The company is well-positioned to support major infrastructure projects tied to upcoming events like the 2032 Brisbane Olympics [24] Q&A Session Summary Question: Inquiry about macroeconomic conditions and SMB strength - Management noted a consistent environment with strong investment in infrastructure, despite tariff uncertainties [39][40] Question: Addressing the long tail of engineers and product offerings - The company confirmed it has a full range of products to address various market segments, with MicroStation being a key entry point for new users [43][44] Question: Data center opportunity and partnerships - Management discussed the infrastructure needs surrounding data centers and the potential for partnerships with hyperscalers [47][49] Question: Clarification on free cash flow guidance - The company confirmed that the increase in free cash flow guidance is due to tax benefits and will provide multiple years of benefits [53][54] Question: Development priorities and R&D hiring trends - The focus is on AI and Cesium integration, with a strategic approach to hiring in R&D to support these initiatives [61][66] Question: Drivers of slight downtick in net revenue retention - Management explained that the NRR is stable and influenced by pricing and consumption factors, with China’s impact noted [81][85]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Total revenues for Q2 2025 were $364 million, up 10% year over year on a reported basis and 9% on a constant currency basis [26] - Subscription revenues now represent 92% of total revenues, up two percentage points from the same period last year, with subscription revenues growing 12% year over year [27] - The company ended Q2 with an Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) of $1.379 billion, with a year-over-year growth rate of 11.5% on a constant currency basis [29] - Free cash flow was $57 million for the quarter and $273 million year to date, with an increased full-year free cash flow outlook raised to a range of $430 to $470 million [33] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company added 300 basis points of ARR growth from new logos, primarily within the SMB segment, and added more than 600 new SMB logos for the fourteenth consecutive quarter [18] - Subscription revenues grew 12% year over year, while perpetual license revenues decreased to $10 million, down $1 million year over year [27][28] - Professional services revenues declined 7% for the quarter, now representing 6% of total revenues [28] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The Americas region showed solid growth, particularly in Latin America, while the US accounts remained confident despite uncertainties related to tariffs and policy shifts [20] - EMEA delivered solid growth, with the Middle East leading the region, and investment remains strong across transportation, energy, and water infrastructure [21] - In Asia Pacific, India showed positive sentiment across strategic national programs, while Australia experienced a slowdown in transportation spending [23] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on going digital as a long-term growth driver, emphasizing the need for enhanced software utilization and AI in infrastructure engineering [4] - The acquisition of Cesium is aimed at expanding capabilities in 3D geospatial technology and integrating it with existing platforms [24][62] - The company is prioritizing AI and asset analytics in its R&D efforts, indicating a strategic shift towards leveraging AI to enhance productivity in engineering tasks [61][92] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in meeting the full-year outlook based on low double-digit ARR growth and continued margin expansion [16] - The demand for resilient infrastructure continues to outpace available engineering resources, positioning the company's software as crucial for productivity [16] - There is optimism regarding legislative changes that could enhance infrastructure investment, particularly in the US [20] Other Important Information - The company is well-positioned to benefit from upcoming infrastructure funding initiatives in the UK and Europe, with significant long-term funding earmarked for infrastructure projects [22] - The company’s net debt leverage was reduced to 2.4 times adjusted EBITDA, down from 2.9 times in 2024, indicating improved financial health [34] Q&A Session Summary Question: Did you notice an improvement sequentially now that we're past some of the initial tariff uncertainty? - Management indicated a consistent environment with positive outlooks from accounts, highlighting a demand problem rather than a capacity issue [40] Question: Do you have the right product set to reach engineers spending below a thousand? - The company confirmed that its traditional product, MicroStation, serves as an entry point for engineers and remains a growth driver in the SMB segment [43] Question: Can you elaborate on the data center opportunity? - Management noted that data centers represent a significant infrastructure opportunity, with software designed for both the data center and its surrounding infrastructure [49] Question: What drove the slight downtick in net retention rate (NRR)? - The NRR is fluctuating between 109% and 110%, with historical pressures from China affecting the overall figure [82] Question: How is the company leveraging AI in its products? - AI is seen as a key area for enhancing productivity in engineering tasks, with ongoing efforts to integrate AI capabilities into the company's software offerings [92]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported a total revenue of €139.3 million for Q2 2025, representing a 17% year-over-year increase, marking the third consecutive quarter of growth [18] - Referral revenue increased by 18%, driven by sustained branded traffic growth while maintaining a stable return on advertising spend [16] - The company reported a net loss of €6.5 million and an adjusted EBITDA loss of €5.1 million, similar to the previous year's performance [19] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Referral revenues grew by 32% in the Rest of the World, 20% in Developed Europe, and 10% in the Americas, primarily driven by increased branded channel traffic [19] - The company achieved a milestone of generating 20% of referral revenue from logged-in users, indicating progress in fostering user loyalty [11][17] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Geographic performance showed robust growth across all regions, with the Rest of the World leading at 32% year-over-year growth, followed by Developed Europe at 20% and the Americas at 10% [4] - The company faced a foreign exchange headwind that affected the top line by approximately -3%, with a stronger impact of -7% in the Americas [25][26] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on three strategic priorities: brand marketing, enhancing the core hotel search experience, and empowering partners [5][12] - Brand marketing investments are expected to continue driving returns, with a commitment to further expand these investments [6] - The acquisition of Hollisto is aimed at enhancing the user experience and expanding the trivago branded booking funnel [14][22] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in achieving mid-teens percentage revenue growth for the full year of 2025 despite economic uncertainties and foreign exchange headwinds [16][17] - The company anticipates positive adjusted EBITDA in the third and fourth quarters of the year [20] Other Important Information - Operational expenses increased by €19.9 million, totaling €147.3 million for the second quarter, primarily due to higher brand marketing investments [20] - The company maintained a solid global return on advertising spend (ROAS) at 119% for Q2, slightly down from 122.7% in the prior year [21] Q&A Session Summary Question: What was the FX impact for Q2 results? - The FX effect was a strong headwind affecting the top line by approximately -3%, with a -7% impact in the Americas [25][26] Question: What is the growth runway for brand investments? - The company has seen a 22% spend increase year-on-year and an 18% referral revenue increase, indicating effective brand strategy and significant upside potential [26] Question: What differences exist between logged-in and logged-out users? - Logged-in users show a 25% higher conversion rate, and the company is encouraging logins through exclusive deals and features [34][35] Question: What gives confidence for revenue growth acceleration in Q3? - Despite FX effects impacting July, strong double-digit branded traffic growth and branded revenue growth in July support confidence in achieving double-digit growth [36][39] Question: What are the early learnings from partnerships with the Book and Go product? - Early partnerships have shown significant double-digit conversion improvements, making partners more competitive in the marketplace [42][43]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - In Q2 2025, Uber achieved all-time highs in audience and frequency, with trips and gross bookings both increasing by 18% [5] - Adjusted EBITDA, GAAP operating income, and free cash flow also reached new highs [5] - The company anticipates continued strong performance in Q3, projecting high teens growth in gross bookings and low to mid-30s growth in EBITDA [5] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - The introduction of lower-cost products, such as Moto, contributed to a significant audience growth of 15% [22] - The premium business surpassed $10 billion, growing at 35%, while the reserve business grew by 60% [22] - Uber One membership increased by 6 million quarter over quarter, reaching a total of 36 million members, with a focus on enhancing mobility offerings [25] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - In the top 10 markets, only about 20% of consumers aged 18 and older use Uber on a monthly basis, indicating substantial room for audience expansion [24] - The average Waymo vehicle deployed on Uber's network is busier than 99% of human drivers in terms of completed trips per day [28] Company Strategy and Development Direction - Uber is focusing on a platform strategy that integrates mobility and delivery services, aiming to increase cross-platform engagement [6] - The company announced a $20 billion share repurchase authorization to enhance shareholder value [7] - Uber is investing in autonomous vehicle partnerships and expanding its operating zones, with significant progress in partnerships with Waymo and others [7][33] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in the continued growth of audience and bookings, driven by the introduction of new products and improved pricing strategies [50] - The company is optimistic about the future of autonomous vehicles, with plans to ramp up deployments significantly [7][28] - Management highlighted the importance of experimentation and targeted promotions to enhance consumer engagement across platforms [10][11] Other Important Information - Uber's advertising business is growing rapidly, with plans to externalize technical capabilities, including data licensing opportunities [78] - The company is exploring various business models for autonomous vehicles, including merchant and agency models [64] Q&A Session Summary Question: Follow-up on platform initiatives and consumer behavior - Management acknowledged the challenges of executing cross-platform promotions but noted that users engaging with both mobility and delivery services have higher retention rates and generate more bookings [10][11] Question: Insights on audience growth and autonomous vehicle deployment - Management attributed audience growth to the introduction of lower-cost products and emphasized the ongoing potential for expansion in the market [22][24] - Updates on autonomous vehicle utilization indicated that Waymo vehicles are performing exceptionally well on the network [28] Question: Clarification on vehicle commitments and partnerships - Management discussed the strategic importance of partnerships with Neuro and Lucid, emphasizing the benefits of increased supply for the platform [33][64] Question: Consumer response to pricing changes and confidence in trip acceleration - Management reported positive consumer responses to pricing adjustments, with expectations for continued growth in mobility trips [50][51] Question: Future of OEM partnerships and market share - Management expressed confidence in expanding OEM partnerships and highlighted the competitive landscape for autonomous vehicles [43][46]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported adjusted net revenue of $2,360 million, an increase of 5% on a constant currency basis excluding dispositions [38] - Adjusted operating margin for the quarter increased by 130 basis points to 44.6%, translating to 110 basis points of expansion excluding dispositions [39] - Adjusted earnings per share (EPS) was $3.1, reflecting an 11% increase on both reported and constant currency basis [39] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - Merchant Solutions achieved adjusted net revenue of $1,830 million for the second quarter, reflecting growth of approximately 5.5% excluding dispositions [39] - The integrated embedded business grew in the high single digits range excluding dispositions, with strong growth in new POS locations [40] - Issuer Solutions produced adjusted net revenue of $547 million for the second quarter, reflecting growth of approximately 3.5% on a constant currency basis [40] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Strong growth was noted in international markets, particularly in Central Europe, LatAm, and Asia Pacific, all achieving high single-digit or greater growth [40] - The company added 15 million traditional accounts on file year to date, driven by new implementations and growth with existing customers [41] - The adjusted operating margin for the Issuer Solutions business improved by 190 basis points from the prior year to 48.7% [42] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on a transformation agenda aimed at streamlining operations and enhancing growth, with an expected annual run rate operating income benefit of $650 million [48][50] - The acquisition of Worldpay is seen as a significant opportunity to enhance competitive strengths and accelerate growth trajectory [34][37] - The company plans to return $7.5 billion in capital to shareholders between 2025 and 2027, consistent with its capital allocation plan [47][51] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in the resilience of the business model despite a fluid macro environment and muted consumer sentiment [7] - The company expects adjusted net revenue growth of 5% to 6% over 2024, with adjusted EPS growth anticipated at the high end of the 10% to 11% range for the full year [44][47] - Management highlighted the positive reception of the Genius platform and its potential to drive growth in the second half of the year [80] Other Important Information - The company announced the sale of its payroll business for $1.1 billion, allowing for $500 million of additional shareholder returns through an accelerated share repurchase program [6][22] - The company has initiated integration planning for the Worldpay transaction and established critical work streams to support a successful integration [7][32] - The company achieved strong adjusted free cash flow of approximately $800 million for the quarter, representing a conversion rate of adjusted net income to adjusted free cash flow of approximately 110% [43] Q&A Session Summary Question: Should we expect normal seasonal patterns in Q3 and Q4 for merchant growth? - Management expects growth for merchant to be approximately 5.5% in the first half and anticipates acceleration in Q3 and Q4 due to transformation benefits from the Genius platform [55] Question: What is the expected impact of the payroll divestiture on revenue? - The payroll divestiture is expected to close at the end of Q3, contributing approximately $65 million in revenue per quarter [56] Question: Are there plans for additional divestitures in light of the Worldpay acquisition? - Management is reassessing portfolio composition and may consider additional divestitures that do not align with the Worldpay strategy, with proceeds used for shareholder returns [66][70] Question: Is there any friction or attrition related to the Genius brand consolidation? - Management noted a slight pause in buying behavior prior to the Genius launch but has not seen significant attrition in the existing customer base [72] Question: What is the confidence level in the acceleration of growth in the second half of the year? - Management expressed confidence in achieving slightly above 6% growth in the merchant business in the second half, bolstered by the success of the Genius platform and sales force transformation [80]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - Total sales growth of 2% was achieved, with record adjusted EBITDA margins of 20.4% [8][27] - Adjusted EBITDA reached 20.1%, highlighting the company's resilience despite challenges [29] - Free cash flow generated in the quarter was $46 million, with expectations for improvement in cash flow during the second half of 2025 [31][32] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - EMEA and APAC segments showed strong performance, with total sales rising 11% and EBITDA margins hitting a record 20.6% [30] - Organic sales in The Americas declined due to delays in automation orders and tariff impacts, but strong pricing helped balance this [28][29] - Automation orders were delayed, but the company expects recovery in the second half of the year [41][50] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - The Middle East delivered double-digit growth, while India grew at high single digits [12] - China and Southeast Asia experienced mid-single-digit growth, supported by increased capital expenditure and ongoing LNG investments [13] - The Americas faced near-term headwinds primarily due to tariffs, particularly impacting local customers in Mexico [14][40] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on disciplined cost control, elevating customer experience, and sharpening market differentiation [6] - Recent acquisitions, including Delta P and Active, are expected to accelerate growth and expand the product portfolio [9][22] - The company raised its full-year guidance based on confidence in its equipment portfolio and improving market conditions [9][33] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in the recovery of the automation business in North America and the overall health of the business [41][36] - The company anticipates continued strong performance in high-growth markets and expects to complete four acquisitions this year [36][37] - Management remains optimistic about the impact of EU stimulus measures and the stability of the European market [92][96] Other Important Information - The company is investing approximately $20 million in strategic growth initiatives, including university research partnerships and AI capabilities [17][81] - The Flame internship program aims to build a robust talent pipeline for the fabrication technology sector [10] Q&A Session Summary Question: Can you provide more color on the tariff impacts? - Management noted that tariffs introduced unexpected volume headwinds, particularly in Mexico, but expects recovery in the second half of the year [40][41] Question: What are the savings targets for 2024? - The company has been increasing savings over the last three years, with a focus on back office automation and productivity improvements [43][44] Question: Can you elaborate on the automation demand in Mexico? - Management indicated that automation orders were delayed but are expected to recover in Q3 and Q4, with a slow recovery in Mexico overall [50][88] Question: What is the outlook for Europe and the impact of stimulus measures? - Management expects stable growth in Europe, with stimulus measures beginning to show positive effects, although not at the anticipated rate [92][96] Question: How significant is the automation component's decline? - The decline in automation sales was noted to be in the high twenties percentage-wise, with expectations for recovery [105] Question: What is the expected growth and margin for the EWM acquisition? - The EWM acquisition is expected to have mid-single-digit growth potential and gross margins above 40% [56][57]

Financial Data and Key Metrics Changes - The company reported a strong second quarter with adjusted EBITDA increasing by 13% and adjusted earnings per share (EPS) growing by 17%, both excluding reportable catastrophes [18] - Year-to-date adjusted EBITDA increased by 14% and adjusted EPS rose by 16%, both excluding catastrophes [5][6] - The full year 2025 adjusted EPS growth expectation has been increased to approach 10%, driven by mid to high single-digit growth in adjusted EBITDA [6][26] Business Line Data and Key Metrics Changes - In Global Lifestyle, adjusted EBITDA growth accelerated, with a 6% increase compared to last year, or 7% on a constant currency basis [20] - Connected Living saw adjusted EBITDA increase by 9% or 11% on a constant currency basis, driven by strong subscriber growth [20] - Global Housing adjusted EBITDA was $244 million, an 18% increase excluding catastrophes, benefiting from favorable non-catastrophe loss experience and increased lender-placed policies [22][13] Market Data and Key Metrics Changes - Net written premiums in Global Automotive increased by 8% year-to-date, supported by rate increases and new business wins [11] - The homeowners business in Global Housing benefited from lower claims frequencies and increased lender-placed policies due to pressure in the voluntary insurance market [22][13] - The company added 2.4 million devices protected in Connected Living, bringing the total to 65 million subscribers [9] Company Strategy and Development Direction - The company is focused on leveraging technology and innovation to drive growth, including investments in AI to enhance customer experience and operational efficiency [24][25] - The diversified business model allows the company to perform consistently across various economic environments, differentiating it from the broader property and casualty industry [7] - The company aims to expand offerings and increase attachment rates with existing partners while entering attractive adjacent sectors through new product offerings [16] Management's Comments on Operating Environment and Future Outlook - Management expressed confidence in achieving the ninth consecutive year of profitable growth in 2025, supported by strong performance in Global Housing and continued growth in Global Lifestyle [7][26] - The company is monitoring macroeconomic conditions, including tariffs, inflation, and interest rates, which may impact growth [28] - Management highlighted the importance of maintaining balance and flexibility in capital allocation to support new business growth while returning excess capital to shareholders [29] Other Important Information - The company has completed $150 million in share repurchases so far this year and expects total repurchases for the year to be between $250 million to $300 million [19][29] - The company reported a holding company liquidity position of $518 million at quarter-end, providing flexibility for future growth [19] Q&A Session Summary Question: What is the trend for the overall benefit ratio in Global Lifestyle? - Management noted that the benefit ratio is around 23 to 24% and is expected to trend down as rates continue to earn through in Global Auto, with improvements in vehicle service contract loss experience [33][34] Question: What is driving the decline in investment income from other investments? - Management explained that the investment portfolio continues to perform well, with overall book yields up, but noted some lumpiness due to real estate transactions [35][36] Question: Can you quantify any pull forward in consumer activity regarding the number of devices and protected vehicles? - Management indicated that there was some pull forward in Connected Living, particularly in trade-ins, but the majority of growth was driven by device protection [42][44] Question: What opportunities exist for gaining more leverage in the housing segment? - Management highlighted that the expense ratio is running in the high 30s, with opportunities for leverage coming from growth in the lender-placed portfolio and technology investments [47][49] Question: What is the source of prior year development in Global Housing? - Management identified improvements in Florida due to regulatory changes, lower claim frequencies, and lower-than-expected inflation as key drivers [57] Question: What is the impact of tariffs observed so far? - Management reported limited impact from tariffs in the first half of the year and remains proactive in managing inflation and service efficiency [59] Question: How is the new business pipeline for lifestyle compared to previous years? - Management noted strong momentum in the new business pipeline, with a mix of new client wins and expansions in existing relationships, particularly in Connected Living [63][66]