Golub Capital BDC (NasdaqGS:GBDC) Q4 2025 Earnings Call November 19, 2025 10:00 AM ET Company ParticipantsDavid Golub - CEORobert Dodd - Director, Specialty FinanceCraig Benton - Head of Investor RelationsChris Ericson - CFOTim Topicz - COOJordan Wathen - Equity Research AssociateCraig BentonHello everyone, and welcome to GBDC's earnings call for the fiscal quarter and fiscal year, and it's September 30, 2025. Before we begin, I'd like to take a moment to remind our listeners that remarks made during this c ...

Core Viewpoint - The core logic for global asset allocation in 2026 is to "follow the direction of credit expansion" [1] Group 1: Market Dynamics - The hidden mainline of the market is that the direction of credit expansion determines the strength of assets and the flow of funds [3] - The past couple of years in the Chinese market have been characterized by "excess liquidity" chasing "scarce return assets," with the recognized scarce assets changing over time [3] - Key factors for future market judgment include whether the liquidity environment has been damaged and whether scarce assets can expand to a broader range [3] Group 2: Credit Expansion and Investment Strategy - The investment strategy for 2026 is framed around the "credit cycle," focusing on three main subjects of credit expansion [4] - In the Chinese market, the credit cycle is expected to experience a slowdown, with structural prosperity still present despite challenges [6] - The U.S. market is seeing a gradual recovery in the credit cycle, supported by fiscal and monetary easing, with no significant signs of bubble formation in AI investments [7] Group 3: Structural Opportunities in China - The overall credit cycle in China is expected to face challenges starting from Q4, but structural prosperity remains effective [9] - The correlation between market performance and economic expectations has increased, indicating a need to focus on structural trends for excess returns [9] - Three structural directions for prosperity include AI-driven trends, capacity cycle reversals, and external demand mapping [9] Group 4: Hong Kong Market Outlook - The outlook for the Hong Kong market in 2026 suggests limited index space, with potential growth coming from structural changes or unexpected pullbacks rather than pure valuation expansion [11] - The Hang Seng Index's dynamic valuation is currently at 11.4 times, indicating a position above the historical average, suggesting that the market is not "cheap" [11] Group 5: Recommended Investment Directions - It is advisable to maintain a moderate allocation to dividend assets to counter the weakening of the overall credit cycle [13] - Key sectors to focus on include AI software and hardware, electric new energy, chemicals, home furnishings, and innovative pharmaceuticals, with careful consideration of valuation and crowding [13] - A potential rise in China's PPI towards the end of this year could provide an opportunity for market shifts towards cyclical and certain consumer sectors [14]

信用周期见顶下行，10 月金融信贷数据验证了这一趋势，结构性收入预 期及成本回报倒挂是主因，若政策对冲不及时，市场震荡或将持续，港 股乐观情形下年内点位在 26,000 左右，建议关注分红配置及低价股机 会。 AI 产业短期估值和预期较高，对利空敏感，会导致波动，但生成式 AI 在 企业和居民端普及率高，降本增效显著，美国各行业应用 AI 可使单位成 本平均下降 10%，因此 AI 产业仍有较大发展空间。 预计短期内标普 500 指数在 6,700 点左右震荡，若明年基本面、信用周 期和盈利趋势向上，短期波动反而是介入机会。预计 2026 年美国信用 周期将走向修复甚至过热，叠加美联储扩表和 TGA 提供流动性，将支撑 美股走势。 借鉴日本 90 年代地产泡沫破裂后三轮牛市经验，仅靠流动性驱动难以 支撑长期牛市，需关注基本面改善和政策支持力度。当前 A 股和港股估 值较高，总量政策驱动但基本面尚未好转，需警惕政策力度不及预期、 AI 泡沫及内部债务风险。 Q&A "被忽略"的牛市 20251117 摘要 当前国内外市场的宏观环境如何，主要面临哪些挑战和机遇？ 近期，国内外市场都处于政策的真空期，并且受到了多种 ...

Core Viewpoint - The Chinese market in 2025 is expected to exceed expectations, characterized as a bull market driven by industry trends (AI), fundamental improvements, and liquidity narratives [1][2] Macroeconomic Environment - The concept of "excess liquidity" is driving the pursuit of "scarce assets," with liquidity remaining abundant but the credit cycle shifting to oscillation or even slowdown [2] - The recognition of "scarce assets" changes with the credit cycle, impacting the types of assets that attract investment [2][3] Liquidity and Scarcity - The current situation in China is characterized by a coexistence of deflation and localized inflation, with excess liquidity leading to significant asset price differentiation [3][4] - The key questions for future market judgments are whether the liquidity environment has been damaged and if scarce assets can expand to a broader range [3][4] Credit Cycle and Asset Expansion - The credit cycle is expected to oscillate and slow down, making it difficult for scarce return assets to expand significantly [5][6] - The government’s role in stimulating credit expansion is limited, and structural issues remain a challenge for long-term growth [6][7] Market Trends - The Hang Seng Index's dynamic valuation is currently at 11.4 times, indicating that the market is not "cheap" and future index space will require earnings recovery rather than relying solely on valuation expansion [8][9] - The overall earnings growth is projected to be modest, with a baseline scenario estimating a 3% growth in 2026 [9] Investment Strategy - The company suggests maintaining a moderate allocation to dividend assets to counterbalance the weak credit cycle expansion [10] - Focus on sectors that can still expand credit, such as AI technology, new energy, and innovative pharmaceuticals, while underweighting real estate and consumer goods [10][11]

Core Viewpoint - The Chinese market in 2025 is characterized as a bull market driven by industry trends (AI), fundamental improvements, and liquidity narratives, with significant contributions from risk premiums and structural performance [2][17]. Group 1: Market Dynamics - The market's performance is influenced by excess liquidity chasing scarce return assets, leading to significant structural changes and asset rotation [25][26]. - The Hang Seng Index and Hang Seng Tech Index saw a 30% increase, primarily driven by risk premiums rather than earnings growth [17][18]. - Structural characteristics include significant contributions from a small number of stocks, with 15 stocks accounting for 70% of index gains, while many others underperformed [2][19]. Group 2: Liquidity Environment - The liquidity environment remains abundant, with macro, micro, and external liquidity factors contributing to the current state [28][30]. - Macro liquidity is characterized by low interest rates and a loose monetary policy, while micro liquidity reflects a lack of effective demand leading to capital stagnation [28][30]. - External liquidity is expected to remain loose in the first half of 2026, influenced by the Federal Reserve's interest rate policies and the ongoing "de-dollarization" narrative [34][35]. Group 3: Scarce Assets and Credit Cycle - The concept of "scarce assets" is determined by the credit cycle, with different phases affecting asset preferences, such as fixed-return assets during credit contraction and growth assets during recovery [3][36]. - The current credit cycle is expected to experience fluctuations, making it challenging for scarce return assets to expand broadly across the market [40][41]. - The government’s fiscal policies are limited in scope, with structural preferences affecting the ability to stimulate traditional demand sectors [45][46]. Group 4: Sector Outlook - Emerging demand sectors, particularly in technology and AI, are projected to maintain high growth, although expectations may be overly optimistic [41][42]. - Traditional demand sectors, such as real estate and consumer goods, are likely to weaken again after a brief recovery, primarily due to low income expectations and cost-return mismatches [43][44]. - Fiscal spending is expected to be limited but may shift structurally to support sectors with higher growth potential, such as technology and innovation [45][46].

Summary of Conference Call Records Industry or Company Involved - Focus on the impact of tariffs and market strategies for the fourth quarter of 2025 - Discussion on the strategic value of China's rare earth resources Core Points and Arguments Market Conditions and Strategies - Short-term market volatility is heavily influenced by sentiment, with technical support levels being more critical than fundamentals [1][2] - Investors who have reduced positions may consider selectively buying quality structural assets, while those who have not should avoid hasty adjustments based on emotional market fluctuations [1][2] - The U.S.-China tariff negotiations may see short-term progress, but long-term uncertainties are increasing, with high tariffs being detrimental to both sides [1][2][3] - The current market liquidity is abundant, leading to a pursuit of scarce returns, which has resulted in localized inflation [1][5] Asset Performance and Allocation - In Q4, the focus for asset allocation is on gold, dividends, and growth assets, which have all seen a rise this year, breaking traditional asset pricing logic [1][4] - The performance of these asset classes is influenced by various factors, including geopolitical tensions, global decoupling, and central bank gold purchases [1][4] - The U.S. market shows a disparity between strong growth in the tech sector and weakness in other areas, exacerbated by the acceleration of AI investments [1][6] Credit Cycle and Economic Outlook - The applicability of the Merrill Lynch clock framework in China is limited due to significant policy expectations and evident disparities in economic performance [2][7] - Future asset rotation can be analyzed through the intensity of credit expansion in both government and private sectors, with a focus on indirect financing [2][8] - The credit cycles in the U.S. and China may diverge, with the U.S. potentially moving towards recovery while China may experience stagnation or slight slowdown [2][9] Export Dynamics and Trade Relations - China's exports have exceeded expectations, with a year-to-date growth rate of 6.1% in dollar terms, despite a nearly 20% decline in exports to the U.S. [2][12][14] - The structure of China's exports is changing, with an increasing proportion of intermediate goods, which are essential for industrial production [2][12][13] - The strategic value of rare earth resources is highlighted, with China holding a dominant position in both reserves and the entire supply chain [2][21][22] Rare Earth Resources and Strategic Implications - China's rare earth resources account for 34% of global reserves, with a significant share in heavy rare earths [2][21] - Recent export control measures have enhanced China's control over rare earth resources, impacting global supply chains and U.S. companies [2][22] - The demand for high-performance permanent magnet materials is expected to grow, with a projected annual increase of over 10% in the coming years [2][22] Other Important but Possibly Overlooked Content - The current geopolitical landscape and the restructuring of the global dollar monetary system are influencing asset performance and investment strategies [1][4] - The potential for localized inflation due to abundant liquidity and the pursuit of scarce returns is a critical factor for investors to consider [1][5] - The implications of U.S.-China trade relations on agricultural commodities, particularly soybeans, are significant, with price pressures observed due to tariffs [2][17][19]

Core Viewpoint - The article discusses the unusual performance of various asset classes in 2023, where traditionally opposing assets such as gold, dividends, and growth stocks have shown simultaneous gains, challenging the conventional inflation and deflation asset pricing framework [2][6][7]. Group 1: Asset Performance Analysis - In the first quarter of 2023, gold and growth stocks rose together, followed by a period in the second quarter where dividends and growth stocks also increased, and again in the third quarter where gold and growth stocks performed well together [2][4]. - The traditional asset pricing theory suggests that gold benefits from inflation, dividends are more attractive in deflationary environments, and growth stocks thrive in moderate inflation and risk-on conditions [6][7]. - The article posits that the current market dynamics cannot be solely explained by inflation or deflation, indicating that other factors, such as geopolitical risks and central bank gold purchases, are influencing asset prices [7][11]. Group 2: Macro Environment and Credit Cycles - The macroeconomic environment in China is characterized by a decline in overall prices, particularly in PPI, while excess liquidity is causing "scarce" assets to appreciate, reflecting a localized inflation phenomenon [11][15]. - The article emphasizes that the credit cycle framework is a more effective tool for understanding asset rotation in China, as it considers the underlying causes of inflation and deflation rather than just the outcomes [16][17]. - The credit cycle can be influenced by three main factors: new industry trends (e.g., AI), government-led fiscal stimulus, and traditional demand from the private sector [19][20]. Group 3: Future Outlook - The article forecasts that the credit cycle in China is likely to shift towards a "fiscal strong + credit weak" or "fiscal weak + credit weak" phase, influenced by high base effects and slowing fiscal stimulus [28][36]. - Key indicators such as the broad fiscal deficit pulse and private sector credit pulse are expected to show downward trends, indicating a potential tightening of credit conditions [30][32]. - The article concludes that without significant policy intervention, the market is likely to continue along its current trajectory, focusing on sectors that remain resilient amid a weakening credit cycle [36][37].

Core Viewpoint - The article discusses the social financing (社融) data for September, highlighting a slight increase in financing and a mixed performance across various components, indicating a cautious economic recovery and the need for structural optimization in credit policies [1][7]. Summary by Sections Social Financing Overview - In September, social financing increased by 3.5 trillion yuan, slightly above the market expectation of 3.3 trillion yuan, but down 229.7 billion yuan year-on-year, showing improvement from a previous decline of 465.5 billion yuan [1][7]. - The stock growth rate of social financing was 8.7%, a slight decrease of 0.1 percentage points from the previous month [1][7]. Credit and Financing Components - Entity credit increased by 1.6 trillion yuan, down 366.2 billion yuan year-on-year, which is better than August but weaker than the same periods in March and June [8]. - Government bond financing rose by 1.2 trillion yuan, down 347.1 billion yuan year-on-year, primarily due to a high base from the previous year [2][11]. - Corporate bond financing increased by 105 billion yuan, up 2.031 trillion yuan year-on-year, attributed to a low base from the previous year [3][12]. Monetary Aggregates - M1 growth rate was 7.2%, up 1.2 percentage points from the previous month, with a 1.9 trillion yuan increase, the highest for the same period in five years [4][13]. - M2 growth rate was 8.4%, down 0.4 percentage points from the previous month, mainly due to a significant reduction in non-bank deposits [5][15]. Economic Outlook and Policy Implications - The overall liquidity situation has improved, driven by fiscal pre-positioning and increased foreign exchange settlements, but the internal credit cycle has not yet visibly recovered [6][16]. - Key areas to watch include the effectiveness of new policy financial tools, potential new industry policies from upcoming important meetings, and the possibility of early issuance of local government debt limits for 2026 [6][16].

Core Viewpoint - The article discusses the potential for a style shift in the A-share market in the fourth quarter, based on historical trends and market dynamics [2][4]. Group 1: Historical Trends and Market Behavior - Historical data indicates that there is often a noticeable style shift from Q3 to Q4, with sectors that performed well in Q3 typically underperforming in Q4 [2][4]. - A report from Dongwu Securities highlights that from 2010 to 2024, industries that ranked high in Q3 often see a decline in their rankings in Q4, with sectors like banking and home appliances showing a high excess return probability of 60% [2][4]. Group 2: Institutional Behavior and Market Dynamics - The fourth quarter is crucial for institutions as they aim to lock in profits and avoid ranking volatility, leading to potential profit-taking in previously high-performing sectors [4]. - The current market is characterized by a high degree of structural divergence, which may trigger a style shift as institutions adjust their strategies [4][5]. Group 3: Credit Cycle and Growth Trends - Historical patterns suggest that credit cycles last between 11 to 23 months, with the current credit cycle showing signs of recovery, which may favor technology and growth sectors in Q4 [7]. - Reports indicate that since 2010, technology earnings and credit cycles have been closely aligned, suggesting that a recovery in credit could benefit growth stocks [7][8]. Group 4: Investment Strategies and Market Outlook - The article emphasizes the importance of maintaining a growth-oriented investment strategy, as historical cycles show that growth sectors tend to outperform during recovery phases [8]. - Factors that typically catalyze a shift from growth to value include strong economic recovery or significant policy stimulus, but current conditions suggest limited potential for such shifts, favoring growth styles instead [8].

Group 1 - HSBC predicts that by 2026, the Shanghai Composite Index will reach 4500 points, the CSI 300 Index will reach 5400 points, and the Shenzhen Component Index will reach 16000 points, representing an increase of 17-20% [1] - Morgan Stanley reports that over 90% of roadshow clients expressed willingness to increase exposure to Chinese assets, marking the highest interest since early 2021 [1] - Fidelity International notes a significant increase in global investors' interest in Chinese assets, with hedge funds showing the highest activity in China's stock market in recent years [2] Group 2 - Barclays states that gold prices do not appear overvalued, with gold ETF holdings at their highest since 2022, and prices have surged over 40% this year [2] - Nomura expects the Reserve Bank of Australia to maintain its cash rate, with a shift towards a less dovish communication stance [3] - Nomura also indicates that volatility in the USD/JPY exchange rate may increase due to upcoming data and events [4] Group 3 - CICC suggests that the credit cycle in both China and the US may be approaching turning points, impacting market directions [9] - Guotai Junan emphasizes the importance of the fourth quarter for cyclical industries and high-growth sectors, with a historical tendency for cyclical industries to perform well [11] - Huatai Securities predicts that PPI year-on-year and industrial profits are likely to continue their recovery trend [14]